Un fil sur RMCR, en novembre 2000, sur la 9e de Bruckner. ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: Jarl Sigurd Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2000 22:25:27 -0800 Just curious, if you were to disqualify Furtwangler's 1944 Bruckner 9th from consideration, what would your favorite recording of Bruckner's 9th Symphony be? Jarl Sigurd ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: simon@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon Roberts) Date: 10 Nov 2000 16:20:51 GMT Jarl Sigurd (jarlsigurd@geocities.com) wrote: : Just curious, if you were to disqualify Furtwangler's : 1944 Bruckner 9th from consideration, what would your : favorite recording of Bruckner's 9th Symphony be? How surprising that you should assume that everyone's first choice is Furtwängler's.... Simon ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: rkhalona@adnc.com Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 17:40:17 GMT In article <8uh793$j71$1@netnews.upenn.edu>, simon@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon Roberts) wrote: > Jarl Sigurd (jarlsigurd@geocities.com) wrote: > : Just curious, if you were to disqualify Furtwangler's > : 1944 Bruckner 9th from consideration, what would your > : favorite recording of Bruckner's 9th Symphony be? > > How surprising that you should assume that everyone's first choice is > Furtwängler's.... Furtwängler's is my second favorite. Everybody else is tied for 1st place. :-) Seriously now, Furt.'s is a great performance, but many people would object to it on the basis of sound [I happen to feel that Jochum/BPO captures much of what Furt. has to say in the Ninth, but in much better sound], so I would agree with Simon that it's not a given that Furt. would come up on top of most people's lists. Here is a short list of 9ths that I would not be without (not in any specific order) - Van Beinum/Philips - Haitink/Philips (Digital) - Schuricht/VPO (EMI) - Blomstedt/LGO (Decca) - Jochum/BPO (DG) - Furtwaengler/BPO (DG) - Giulini/VPO (DG) - Walter/Columbia SO (Sony) I'm sure I'm forgetting a few. Ramon Khalona ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: simon@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon Roberts) Date: 10 Nov 2000 18:14:04 GMT rkhalona@adnc.com wrote: > - Van Beinum/Philips > - Haitink/Philips (Digital) > - Schuricht/VPO (EMI) > - Blomstedt/LGO (Decca) > - Jochum/BPO (DG) > - Furtwaengler/BPO (DG) > - Giulini/VPO (DG) > - Walter/Columbia SO (Sony) Most of those would be on my short list too. So would a few others, including Kabasta, the mono DG Jochum, Sinopoli and perhaps Skrowaczewski. Simon (foolishly trying to rely on memory and thus probably forgetting something obvious) ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: Jarl Sigurd Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 13:53:53 -0800 Simon Roberts wrote: > > rkhalona@adnc.com wrote: > > > - Van Beinum/Philips > > - Haitink/Philips (Digital) > > - Schuricht/VPO (EMI) > > - Blomstedt/LGO (Decca) > > - Jochum/BPO (DG) > > - Furtwaengler/BPO (DG) > > - Giulini/VPO (DG) > > - Walter/Columbia SO (Sony) > > Most of those would be on my short list too. So would a few others, > including Kabasta Personally, I prefer the Von Hausegger version to the Kabasta. I would say that the Von Hausegger is my 2nd favorite Bruckner 9th. Jarl Sigurd ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: "Jeremy Dimmick" Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 21:57:25 -0000 Simon's memory, unlike (ahem) at least one other person's, doesn't lead him seriously astray "Simon Roberts" wrote in message news:8uhdtc$sme$1@netnews.upenn.edu... > rkhalona@adnc.com wrote: > > > - Van Beinum/Philips > > - Haitink/Philips (Digital) > > - Schuricht/VPO (EMI) > > - Blomstedt/LGO (Decca) > > - Jochum/BPO (DG) > > - Furtwaengler/BPO (DG) > > - Giulini/VPO (DG) > > - Walter/Columbia SO (Sony) > > Most of those would be on my short list too. So would a few others, > including Kabasta, the mono DG Jochum, Sinopoli and perhaps Skrowaczewski. > > Simon (foolishly trying to rely on memory and thus probably forgetting > something obvious) ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: perman@mindspring.com (Marc Perman) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 03:57:07 GMT simon@dept.english.upenn.edu (Simon Roberts) wrote: >rkhalona@adnc.com wrote: > > > - Van Beinum/Philips > > - Haitink/Philips (Digital) > > - Schuricht/VPO (EMI) > > - Blomstedt/LGO (Decca) > > - Jochum/BPO (DG) > > - Furtwaengler/BPO (DG) > > - Giulini/VPO (DG) > > - Walter/Columbia SO (Sony) > >Most of those would be on my short list too. So would a few others, >including Kabasta, the mono DG Jochum, Sinopoli and perhaps Skrowaczewski. Ditto on Kabasta. To some of the above I would add Asahina/Osaka (Canyon) and Klemperer/NYPO (NYPO edition), despite the latter's crumbly sound. Marc Perman ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: lawnch@webtv.net (Lawrence Chalmers) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 20:23:57 -0800 (PST) 1. Van Beinum/Phillips 2. Wand/BPO/BMG In that order. ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: rkhalona@adnc.com Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 05:29:21 GMT In article <3a0cc2d1.39906373@news.mindspring.com>, perman@mindspring.com wrote: > Ditto on Kabasta. To some of the above I would add Asahina/Osaka > (Canyon) and Klemperer/NYPO (NYPO edition), despite the latter's > crumbly sound. I LOVE that Klemperer/NYPO performance (I believe the very first extant recording of the Ninth, anticipating Hausegger's by four years), but it certainly makes Furtwaengler's sound HiFi by comparison. Ramon Khalona ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: David Standifer Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 07:10:55 -0600 rkhalona@adnc.com wrote: > I LOVE that Klemperer/NYPO performance (I believe the very first extant > recording of the Ninth, anticipating Hausegger's by four years), but it > certainly makes Furtwaengler's sound HiFi by comparison. Is this available outside what I am assuming must be a set? David ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: rkhalona@adnc.com Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 06:10:18 GMT > > I LOVE that Klemperer/NYPO performance (I believe the very first > > extant recording of the Ninth, anticipating Hausegger's > > by four years), but it certainly makes Furtwaengler's > > sound HiFi by comparison. > > Is this available outside what I am assuming must be a set? I don't believe so. RK ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: "Raymond Hall" Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 11:13:32 +1100 > > > Just curious, if you were to disqualify Furtwangler's > > > 1944 Bruckner 9th from consideration, what would your > > > favorite recording of Bruckner's 9th Symphony be? > > > > How surprising that you should assume that everyone's first choice is > > Furtwängler's.... > > Furtwängler's is my second favorite. Everybody else is tied for 1st > place. :-) > > Seriously now, Furt.'s is a great performance, but many people would > object to it on the basis of sound [I happen to feel that Jochum/BPO > captures much of what Furt. has to say in the Ninth, but in much better > sound], so I would agree with Simon that it's not a given that Furt. > would come up on top of most people's lists. Here is a short list of > 9ths that I would not be without (not in any specific order) > > - Van Beinum/Philips > - Haitink/Philips (Digital) > - Schuricht/VPO (EMI) > - Blomstedt/LGO (Decca) > - Jochum/BPO (DG) > - Furtwaengler/BPO (DG) > - Giulini/VPO (DG) > - Walter/Columbia SO (Sony) > > I'm sure I'm forgetting a few. How does Jochum's Dresden EMI 9th stack up against his BPO version? Noting that Fluffy is missing also. But I do note in Jochum's Dresden account, there seems to be too much "fiddling about", excessive rubato, especially in the Adagio, or was it the first movement, that robs the music of a sense of flow. Is his BPO account that much better? Regards, Ray, Sydney ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: rkhalona@adnc.com Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 01:01:17 GMT > How does Jochum's Dresden EMI 9th stack up against his > BPO version? But I do note in Jochum's Dresden > account, there seems to be too much "fiddling about", > excessive rubato, especially in the Adagio, or was > it the first movement, that robs the music of a sense > of flow. Is his BPO account that much better? I feel that the Ninth is the weak link in Jochum's superlative Dresden cycle. The BPO recording has, IMO, more tension and drama than his Dresden effort, even though there is much to admire in the latter (I happen to be in love with the Dresden sound). Ramon Khalona ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: samir golescu Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 19:13:44 -0600 Ramon K: << I happen to be in love with the Dresden sound >> How does Miss Khalona feel on the subject? regards, SG ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: samir golescu Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 19:28:56 -0600 > Ramon K: > > > I happen to be in love with the Dresden sound > > How does Miss Khalona feel on the subject? Um, Mrs... ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: rkhalona@adnc.com Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 05:25:37 GMT > > I happen to be in love with the Dresden sound > > How does Miss Khalona feel on the subject? There is no Mrs. Khalona (my wife uses her maiden name). She is from Chicago and therefore prefers the CSO, preferably live. RK ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: August Helmbright Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 16:36:49 GMT In article <3A0B94D7.2089@geocities.com>, jarlsigurd@geocities.com wrote: > Just curious, if you were to disqualify Furtwangler's > 1944 Bruckner 9th from consideration, what would your > favorite recording of Bruckner's 9th Symphony be? Jochum/BPO. Maybe even more terrifyingly wild than Furtwängler in the Adagio with its dissonant climaxes. Honorable mention: Bruno Walter/CSO. Only fails to be #1 because the Scherzo is too slow, IMO. The first movement is amazing, all the more so given that it is played by a west coast pick-up ensemble. August Helmbright ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: "Lani Spahr" Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 12:15:28 -0500 August Helmbright wrote in message <8uh870$6h9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>... >Honorable mention: Bruno Walter/CSO. Only fails to be #1 because the >Scherzo is too slow, IMO. The first movement is amazing, all the more >so given that it is played by a west coast pick-up ensemble. This gives credence to the saying "There are no bad orchestras, only bad conductors". Now, who said that? Cheers, Lani Spahr ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: oyþ@earthlink.net (Matthew B. Tepper) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 19:46:41 GMT lani_spahr@agilent.com (Lani Spahr) wrote in <8uhag4$e5g$1@web1.cup.hp.com>: > >August Helmbright wrote in message <8uh870$6h9$1@nnrp1.deja.com>... > >>Honorable mention: Bruno Walter/CSO. Only fails to be #1 because the >>Scherzo is too slow, IMO. The first movement is amazing, all the more >>so given that it is played by a west coast pick-up ensemble. > >This gives credence to the saying "There are no bad orchestras, only bad >conductors". > >Now, who said that? Alfred Scholtz. Matthew B. Tepper ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: rkhalona@adnc.com Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 21:14:21 GMT > >>Honorable mention: Bruno Walter/CSO. Only fails to be #1 because the > >>Scherzo is too slow, IMO. The first movement is amazing, all the > >>more so given that it is played by a west coast pick-up ensemble. > > > >This gives credence to the saying "There are no bad orchestras, only > >bad conductors". > > > >Now, who said that? > > Alfred Scholtz. Are you sure it wasn't Alberto Lizzio? RK ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: himadri@my-deja.com Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 17:01:22 GMT > Just curious, if you were to disqualify Furtwangler's > 1944 Bruckner 9th from consideration, what would your > favorite recording of Bruckner's 9th Symphony be? Gunter Wand's recent live recording with the BPO. This may not entirely be unconnected with the fact that I have heard Wand perform many of the Bruckner symphonies over the last few years at teh Edinburgh Festival, and, as far as I'm concerned, they're some of the best concerts I've ever attended. Speaking for myself, Wand is THE Bruckner conductor. Other than Wand, I like Giulini's performance with the VPO (I heard his eralier recording with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra a long time ago, and don't remember it too well); and also Karajan's DG recording from the 60s. Rgds, Himadri ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: "Henry Glenworthy" Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 11:21:12 -0800 "Jarl Sigurd" wrote: > Just curious, if you were to disqualify Furtwangler's > 1944 Bruckner 9th from consideration, what would your > favorite recording of Bruckner's 9th Symphony be? Gunter Wand - EMI ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: "Brian Park" Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:15:15 -0600 > Just curious, if you were to disqualify Furtwangler's > 1944 Bruckner 9th from consideration, what would your > favorite recording of Bruckner's 9th Symphony be? I haven't heard Furtwangler's recording but Barenboim with the BPO on Teldec isn't bad at all. Brian Park ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: phlmaestro2185@my-deja.com Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 23:19:47 GMT I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who wouldn't agree with putting Furtwangler at the top of the list. However, I'm not one of them :). My next choice would probably be Walter/Columbia Symphony. Barry ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: jrsnfld@aol.com (JRsnfld) Date: 11 Nov 2000 05:50:46 GMT Jarl: I can't decide. However, I know that if I could not have at least one version each from: Furtwangler Schuricht Matacic Mravinsky Knappertsbusch Van Beinum Solti Giulini Barenboim Dohnanyi Skrowaczewski Haitink Walter Horenstein Karajan Celibidache Jochum Hausegger Klemperer or Abendroth, then my first choice would be either Wand, Tintner, or Lopez-Cobos. --Jeff ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: George Murnu Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2000 21:42:49 -0500 Jarl Sigurd wrote: > > Just curious, if you were to disqualify Furtwangler's > 1944 Bruckner 9th from consideration, what would your > favorite recording of Bruckner's 9th Symphony be? Karajan's live VPO recording is one that I like a lot. Regards, George ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: David Standifer Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 07:10:01 -0600 George Murnu wrote: > Karajan's live VPO recording is one that I like a lot. Is this available? David ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: George Murnu Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 12:38:14 -0500 > > Karajan's live VPO recording is one that I like a lot. > > Is this available? AFAIK no longer, but it does occasionalyy show up at used and OOP CD stores ( Academy, PRO, etc. ). Regards, George ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: "Jan Depondt" Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 18:54:12 +0100 > AFAIK no longer, but it does occasionalyy show up at used and OOP CD > stores ( Academy, PRO, etc. ). Can you give *any* hint about the countries and cities where these stores are to be found? Complete addresses are preferred. Jan Depondt ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: jw3@earthlink.net (John Wilson) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 14:04:22 GMT On Sun, 12 Nov 2000 01:04:09 -0500, Tony Movshon wrote: >David Standifer wrote: >> >> George Murnu wrote: >> >> > Karajan's live VPO recording is one that I like a lot. >> >> Is this available? > >Only used. It was in that DGG set of Vienna Philharmonic recordings >done for the orchestra's umpteenth anniversary. I agreee with >George, it's excellent, and far better than the Berlin studio disk. One of the DGG VPO anniversary sets sold recently on ebay for $400. John ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: Jeroen Smits Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 12:39:42 +0100 Jarl Sigurd schreef: > Just curious, if you were to disqualify Furtwangler's > 1944 Bruckner 9th from consideration, what would your > favorite recording of Bruckner's 9th Symphony be? The EMI Klemperer, which shares the nr.1 spot with Furtwaengler. ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: David Standifer Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 07:09:39 -0600 Jeroen Smits wrote: > The EMI Klemperer, which shares the nr.1 spot with Furtwaengler. Is this available? David ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: Baldric Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 01:16:45 GMT I don't have a second favourite, only a favourite - the aformentioned Walter/Columbia SO. - Cheers Baldric I love deadlines. I especially like the whooshing sound they make as they go flying by. ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: "ElShaddai Edwards" Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 00:49:18 -0600 Dohnanyi / Cleveland Orchestra. My first and still favorite Bruckner 9. ElShaddai Jarl Sigurd wrote in message news:3A0B94D7.2089@geocities.com... > Just curious, if you were to disqualify Furtwangler's > 1944 Bruckner 9th from consideration, what would your > favorite recording of Bruckner's 9th Symphony be? ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: jrsnfld@aol.com (JRsnfld) Date: 12 Nov 2000 17:53:58 GMT >Or perhaps Bernstein, Kabasta, Mehta, Chailly, Sinopoli, or Blomstedt?< Oops--forgot Kabasta. He's definitely one of my top 21. Haven't heard the others you suggest (well, I haven't heard Mehta in almost 20 years). So, then, what would be your 28th favorite Bruckner 9th? --Jeff ========== Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings From: Tony Movshon Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 13:19:16 -0500 JRsnfld wrote: > >Or perhaps Bernstein, Kabasta, Mehta, Chailly, Sinopoli, or Blomstedt?< > > Oops--forgot Kabasta. He's definitely one of my top 21. Haven't heard the > others you suggest (well, I haven't heard Mehta in almost 20 years). So, then, > what would be your 28th favorite Bruckner 9th? Well, I dunno. Mehta is definitely up there, actually; his VPO recording of the 9th (available on CD only on Belart, and perhaps now deleted) is extremely good, and beautifully recorded. This isn't Bruckner with the wisdom of years behind it (Mehta was 24 or something when he made it), but it's very beautifully done. Sometimes the wisdom of years can turn into the tedium of years (e.g. Wand). The newish Blomstedt (Leipzig/Decca) is certainly in my top handful, too. -- Tony Movshon ========== ==========